[ZS] Is Crafting Redundant with Remantle Variants?



  • With the introduction of remantling variants, it’s a much easier way to customise and easily tune your gun along many paths. Crafting, I would say, feels like a more archaic, and yes, whilst the guns it creates are fairly significantly different from the precursors they’re constructed from, it’s definitely less accessible, harder to understand, and brings with it overhead in forms of the the crafting database and components. I already have removed a couple of recipes that used to trinkets to craft as it was almost too abstract. You would buy these for scrap in a remantler anyway, and you can always convert points to scrap.

    The scrap mechanic is naturally the best segway into making the process of customising guns more streamlined. If one is reducing the requirements to just having the correct amount of scrap and the right gun, it’s much easier to move on with that. On the other hand, crafting takes the correct component from another weapon, introducing a concept of in some cases, potentially limited resources related to how available certain weapons are to be dismantled for their components. I am effectively wondering what would happen if I transitioned all guns to use the remantler for crafting/variants with scrap instead of components.

    I could leave components in too, but make the interface remantler or something, and completely scrap crafting in the inventory? It would definitely keep it more centralised, at least.

    You are still getting the bonuses from remantling a weapon normally along these paths, but you would now be paying for the privilege to access the variants for a sometimes less and sometimes more available path depending on the circumstances. One is for sure though; remantling a weapon to it’s variant is easier in terms of interface and gameplay compared to crafting.



  • I think streamlining the process of weapon variants is the best course of action right now. Remantlers have went from being novelties to being an integral part of human team efficiency, and having two different forms of getting said variants just doesn’t make any sense now that remantlers have become extremely popular.

    Make the remantle variants that require components have a bit of text to the left of them that states the component required to craft it.

    Though if this change is implemented, will variants requiring components be able to be Perfected like their regular counterparts? And if so, will they give the same buffs as their regular counterparts?



  • Well yeah, they’re on their own branch so they’d get the 3 tiers. They might be moved to different base weapon types, however, if need be. Some juggling is definitely going to need to occur.



  • @raox I think we need to consider how far removed the current system of
    crafting is from the old implementation, and think about what crafting really is.

    Crafting, as I remember it, was this wild competition between players that relied on systems other than the point system.

    Two significant examples from old crafting

    Take for instance, the Kongol Axe. Only 5 could feasibly exist within one round, with each requiring the much sought after butcher’s knife, only available as a drop from the butcher himself. Once acquired, you weren’t out of the woods yet however, as you had to drop both your axe, and the knife on the ground to combine them, allowing other players a brief window nab it from you. Crafting the axe required not only that you be quicker than everyone else, but also discrete enough to nab it and slink away to slap it on your axe. Should you succeed at all this you gain the rarest and arguably most useful melee weapon in the game, marking you as the dominant player. A similar phenomenon surrounded the mega masher, although it was much more niche, and much more common.

    The Waraxe also had a very interesting dynamic to it, in that it was a co-operative craft rather than a competitive one. Since it required two battle axes, only available from the worth menu, one had to either get another player to drop one for them, or pick it off another player’s corpse. Accomplishing this would provide the player with a surplus of ammo, and a more powerful battle axe to use it with. Having one meant you were atleast supported by another player, making you stand out from everyone else.

    How does this compare to the current crafting system?

    The sum of all changes to the crafting system up until this point has removed much of the identity from the system, maybe even its purpose as a system in ZS.

    New crafting

    • is not limited by the current map/boss choice
    • does not give the players a significant increase in power
    • doesn’t require anything that can’t be bought in the arsenal

    It makes me sad to say it, but As it stands, crafting functionally is just buying a weapon with a few extra steps. The old gods are now just relics from a forgotten time, accessible by all who can afford them.

    My Thoughts

    Cut the amount of crafting recipies in the game. Make the less interesting ones simply variants. I know it would be hard to pull off currently, on top of everything else, but I believe the best thing for the gamemode is to revert back to world components or provide some alternate means of getting components. Crafted weapons should require a lot of effort to obtain, perhaps even placing the player in competition with the other players, making them immensely rare, but potent enough to be worth the effort.

    I understand the randomness of boss drops and world props somewhat imbalanced the system, but there must be some other way to restore rarity to components. Everyone remembers when they were the one to wield the kongol axe, but such feats are lost to time. It’s about time we brought them back.



  • It makes me sad to say it, but As it stands, crafting functionally is just buying a weapon with a few extra steps. The old gods are now just relics from a forgotten time, accessible by all who can afford them.

    I’ll agree with this.

    I distinctly recall though, it was made so that weapons don’t have components that are available from bosses because if a bad player picks the wrong boss it essentially means they’ve fed a potentially powerful weapon to the humans for little effort. This was especially the case with the Frotchet. The Gluon variants weren’t so bad, since that required you owned a gluon. The Waraxe recipe I hated because it was basically a ticket for feeding people a Tier 2 weapon at the start of the game.

    I know people miss the discovery aspect of crafting and I sort of liked it in some ways? It was also gimmicky in others, since I had to retain it as a secret between me and other admins, and that remained a chore. If I got fed up with people not finding the recipes I’d have to give out hints, but maybe that was me being impatient. If I were to implement some aspect of this, what would it look like? I know you’re on board with making some of the crafting recipes variants, so what would it look for those other more illusive weapons?

    What about some time based aspect or collection of something? Assembling parts or something. Something that requires you be a bit further developed in the game. Some kind of sub objective.



  • @raox said in [ZS] Is Crafting Redundant with Remantle Variants?:

    The Waraxe recipe I hated because it was basically a ticket for feeding people a Tier 2 weapon at the start of the game.

    100% agree that it was unbalanced, but it was an interesting dynamic at the very least.

    I know people miss the discovery aspect of crafting and I sort of liked it in some ways? It was also gimmicky in others, since I had to retain it as a secret between me and other admins, and that remained a chore. If I got fed up with people not finding the recipes I’d have to give out hints, but maybe that was me being impatient. If I were to implement some aspect of this, what would it look like? I know you’re on board with making some of the crafting recipes variants, so what would it look for those other more illusive weapons?

    I’m not advocating for making crafting recipes more difficult to figure out, while I love research I was focusing more on the accessibility of components, and the current place of crafting in zs.

    What about some time based aspect or collection of something? Assembling parts or something. Something that requires you be a bit further developed in the game. Some kind of sub objective.

    This describes what I was trying to get at. Some kind of sub objective that would provide a powerful weapon/trinket. Such an objective should seek to accomplish the following:

    • Restrict the number of players who can access the item
    • Exist separate from the player’s existing objective of earning points
    • Not be dependent on the shortcomings of zombie team
    • Possibly restrict the accessibility of the item depending on the situation, rewarding resourcefulness and further increasing rarity of the weapon

    One way to accomplish many of this is to introduce some competitive aspect similar to that of killing the butcher, that of course isn’t dependant on zombie team. Perhaps it could be another incentive to perform otherwise unrewarding but necessary odd-jobs such as corrupting sigils? Or perhaps components could have a chance to spawn at unused sigil locations between waves, incentivising humans to make themselves vunerable.



  • 100% weapon crafts should be merged with weapon remantles. I also think there should be a bigger incentive behind choosing to remantle vs. reform (i.e. +price for reforms & +stats for remantles). Right now I think if you can reform a weapon it is a no-brainer to do so instead of remantling it.

    Off-Topic: This new direction of cleaning the clutter and remastering the mechanics is the face-lift ZS needs. There was too much subtle information you needed to know to thrive on the human team. Remantling should be an (weaker) alternative to weapon tier progression, and Stowage needs to just be how resupplies naturally operate. These things would give potency to the lower earners on the human team while not mucking with the point get system that truly reflects effort and skill of players.



  • One thing I do like to with T2s-T3s is give them the chance to be viable end game weapons if you combine them with trinkets and remantle them. Obviously this is a comparable investment to actually buying a Tier 5, but offers a degree of customisation at that level. We’ve already seen this with the Refined Subscope and Superior Assembly.

    I’ll give some thought about making Stowage default (and what skill would replace it).



  • Interesting multi-step craft weapons should stay (Tau Cannon), maybe expand on the routes you can take to make a craft weapon. Simple, 1-step crafts could either be expanded on or made refactored into variants or the shop. I don’t think we should remove crafting in its entirity, remanlting some guns takes a lot of scrap, making them unachieveable without luck.



  • I agree with @prof-dru about keeping the components. If we make everything obtained by scrap, I fear that there will just be too many remantlers bought by players to fight for scrap. I definitely know this because my build relies on remantling to be flexible to certain situations, but I recognize that sometimes I have to adjust to that too. Getting deployables quickly becomes a struggle of Nash equilibrium (or rather, no player can improve thier payoff through crates by unilaterally changing their own decision to buy the crate given the other players’ decisions to buy the same deployable.)

    If we make the remantler the new shrine of variants and meta builds, then maybe their ought to be a small increase in worth of the deployable.



  • GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_bust"] 								= {"comp_busthead", 		"weapon_zs_plank"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_sawhack"] 								= {"comp_sawblade", 		"weapon_zs_axe"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_manhack_saw"] 							= {"comp_sawblade", 		"weapon_zs_manhack"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_megamasher"] 							= {"comp_propanecan", 		"weapon_zs_sledgehammer"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_electrohammer"] 						= {"comp_electrobattery",	"weapon_zs_hammer"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_novablaster"] 							= {"comp_basicecore",		"weapon_zs_magnum"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_tithonus"] 							= {"comp_contaecore",		"weapon_zs_oberon"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_fracture"] 							= {"comp_pumpaction",		"weapon_zs_sawedoff"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_seditionist"] 							= {"comp_focusbarrel",		"weapon_zs_deagle"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_molotov"] 								= {"comp_propanecan",		"weapon_zs_glassbottle"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_blareduct"] 							= {"trinket_ammovestii",	"weapon_zs_pipe"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_cinderrod"] 							= {"comp_propanecan",		"weapon_zs_blareduct"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_innervator"] 							= {"comp_electrobattery",	"weapon_zs_jackhammer"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_hephaestus"] 							= {"comp_gaussframe",		"weapon_zs_tithonus"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_stabber"] 								= {"comp_shortblade",		"weapon_zs_annabelle"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_galestorm"] 							= {"comp_multibarrel",		"weapon_zs_uzi"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_eminence"] 							= {"trinket_pulsecharger",	"weapon_zs_barrage"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_gladiator"] 							= {"trinket_shellholder",	"weapon_zs_sweepershotgun"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_ripper"]								= {"comp_sawblade",			"weapon_zs_zeus"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_avelyn"]								= {"trinket_bandolier",		"weapon_zs_charon"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_asmd"]									= {"comp_precision",		"weapon_zs_quasar"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_enkindler"]							= {"comp_launcher",			"weapon_zs_cinderrod"}
    GM.Assemblies["weapon_zs_proliferator"]							= {"comp_linearactuator",	"weapon_zs_galestorm"}
    

    Here’s a list of the current weapon crafts (after the updates I’ve been doing). I was thinking with the more complex recipes, or ones that act as requirements to others, keep them and just downsize the simpler ones to the remantler. I could make it so specific variants give components but it might be a bit weird too.



  • @raox noted 0_1522773042266_TheKing.png


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