[ZS] Tickle Buffs



  • I still don’t understand why tickle was buffed when you have cading locations like:

    alt text

    Where tickle monster can reach literally every human. It is very hard to back up away from the Tickle and prevents humans from safely shooting. Now that it does more damage, it makes this even worse and new players often die, sometimes even if they’re back at the sigil.

    I don’t think this is good and I think tickle should get some kind of damage taper on humans based on the range they were hit at or something. His role should be to punish barricades with bad blind spots, not to just attempt to kill humans that aren’t even cade humping.

    With a Shade or Red Marrow a Tickle Monster can do this with impunity.

    On a side note why were the map stat winrates re-enabled? I thought this was removed.



  • I think Tickle should be meant to focus on barricade destruction rather than the killing of humans. The Grave Digger is great at damaging players that are relatively close to the cade, but it usually has to get in sight of the humans in order to land hits.

    Tickle right now seems much more favorable than Grave Digger as it can get in a position where people can’t shoot it without risking a hit from the Tickle.

    I also think the Tickle does around 30 damage to humans? Damage to humans in my opinion should be lowered to 15-20.



  • The problem I’ve noticed with the tickle monster is that his small melee size allows him to hit through very small holes while other zombies can’t.
    One example are window slits that prevent any zombies from hitting through but tickle can still attack through it while also preventing humans from effectively shooting him.
    I think making the melee size of tickle larger would be a better fix, such as how high damage melee weapons tend to have a very wide arc that prevents the weapon from actually hitting through the cade if not exposed enough.



  • @wang said in [ZS] Tickle Buffs:

    The problem I’ve noticed with the tickle monster is that his small melee size allows him to hit through very small holes while other zombies can’t.
    One example are window slits that prevent any zombies from hitting through but tickle can still attack through it while also preventing humans from effectively shooting him.
    I think making the melee size of tickle larger would be a better fix, such as how high damage melee weapons tend to have a very wide arc that prevents the weapon from actually hitting through the cade if not exposed enough.

    It wouldn’t be better, because it doesn’t fix the problem. Tickle can still punish some cades in cramped corners. With an open cade it would still be able to do that.



  • It’s kind of like bonemesh or any other boss that has a far range/shoots projectiles there’s bound to be some locations where a boss can be basically invincible if it’s placed correctly. I don’t think a boss should be changed purely due to this fact, because the whole point of the boss selection is to have a choice over what boss is correct for that time. although i do hate having to play against “invincible” bosses I don’t think they should be nerfed because of these rare cases.



  • @chiken dude what



  • @raox i am agreeing with you but i dont think tickle should get nerfed or changed.



  • Yeah it sounded like a stupid response.



  • Make tickle into more of a gimmick zombie like wisp/bone mesh/devo rather than “zombie with long range”.
    That’s a general opinion as well. Some boss zombies are just buffed regular zombies.

    How about: 10x attack speed. 0.05x damage. Adds a stacking 0.5 second “So High Right Now” effect or some other effect to humans hit.



  • Do we really need to drastically change him? He’s always been something that wasn’t too much of a problem and can be countered by just good cading, like not making props stick out so far and angling them to not be hit around corners. He’s only been a problem when it comes to very small windows that he can hit humans through (Blitzkrieg is one of the maps that comes to mind) or the cramped spaces that he can shred humans in. The damage to barricades is fine, just tone down the damage he deals to humans. He does pukepus’ role as hitting humans inside while not being able to be stopped by forcefields.



  • hmm NO.



  • but why?

    (0_1520979950834_59ac2746-b723-4f8e-915c-3cdd06ce6abf-image.png

    Chart by Fructose

    This was BEFORE the change. It was already doing enough barricade damage and had very good human damage. I suppose the barricade damage is fine as is it’s niche but I don’t agree with the human damage one since there’s not as much of a counter to it.

    There is also a psuedobuff in the fact that zombie damage penetration is increased giving The Tickle even more damage than you think it would, as it would be more likely that it hits through multiple humans. It does need changing.

    Why did you not look at the worse off boss zombies? Some of the buffs are misplaced making the worse boss zombies even worse compared to the ones that got buffs. Giga Childs and the Ass Kicker/Slapper needed a buff more than Tickle Monster ever did.



  • yes, the barricade damage boss should be doing more barricade damage than the others.



  • So, ok, why does it have such high human damage too? That’s my point. Why does it do both?



  • Because people like to rub against the props. I could ask the same question about why there’s aoe weapons and ones that go around corners. Literally there is a meme electricity weapon that can kill tickle in 30 seconds by not even being in view.



  • With 150 range? They wouldn’t be at the props. They’d be at the back room, some literally getting hit on the top of the sigil. They cannot back up. You can either sit at the very corner of room and maybe be safe, or you just leave. Better make sure your teleport doesn’t get reset by being hit by the Tickle Monster.

    Here’s an extreme example.

    alt text

    I don’t mind it doing full damage to humans at conventional zombie ranges (or even more than it currently does), but if it’s beyond this (maybe beyond Gravedigger range) it shouldn’t be so strong in my eyes.

    With adjustments I think the Zeus should probably just not hit anything outside of the line of sight of the player. Also even at maximum damage though, the time to kill realistically lies at around 75 seconds rather than 30, which is a hell of a lot higher than some other Tier 5s. Deals 47 damage, fires roughly every 2 seconds (a bit slower than that but whatever). 23.5 dps. 1750/23.5 = 74-75 seconds. A SCAR assault rifle does 117 sustained DPS and will kill a tickle in 15 seconds assuming you hit every shot. That’s also not the fastest, but that’s just to prove a point.

    AoE weapons statistically struggle for damage after I introduced tapering (which reduces the amount of damage per zombie hit) and they also have recently had their radius reduced. Again, statistics are probably better for adjusting. I would not mind increasing the base damage but lowering the radius more.



  • Your extreme example includes the boss sitting against the barricade and dying in 5-10 seconds.

    As for aoe spam weapons, it’s more about the mechanics rather than the stats. The ricochet and the few specialized throwable items filled a niche. Now half the human team has weapons that go around corners and you don’t even need to move your crosshair.



  • I would argue against that and say that it can poke from behind a corner, not actually hug the barricade. It would still sustain damage in the process and may, depending on the barricade be hard to hit. It’s fairly easy (and a common Gravedigger strategy) to charge the attack from behind a wall and move when the attack finishes so that it hits humans and just move away. This way said Tickle Monster will last a lot longer and probably kill people. It’s really prominent if the back of a cade has a window the Tickle can poke through.

    And you don’t really move your crosshair with a SCAR or any other gun much in cade either though. Point it at where the zombies heads are (the centre of head mass if you will). The Gluon was so bad with just holding down left click I had to introduce aim sway to it to nerf it down to the the ground and to make it less braindead. If there’s 20 zombies you’re not going to pick out the heads because the zombies will occupy most of the same space. I’m going by the 20 zombie metric because that’s where AoE weapons shine. If there’s 1 zombie that late on people probably aren’t going to be using said AoE weapons and something is probably wrong with the map.

    It’s not like people are running outside and hitting running zombies which actually involves aiming unless they’re spawncamping which is much harder to do. If you’re having to move your crosshair a lot while you have a barricade it’s probably because you’ve got a hallway cade and hence an easy map. A turret will shoot for you. A zapper hits anything for you in a 360 degree radius. Melee weapons with any significant range basically don’t aim. I could go on. There’s a lot of easy ways to do damage. Changing this involves changing the way the zombies attack the barricade, which doesn’t seem intuitive.

    Edit: I’m happy to make changes like preventing damage if the zombies are out of line of sight and making the radius of the weapons significantly smaller. It’s probably an incremental step in the right direction.

    Edit: I should also remind you about weapons you’ve added in the past that either have infinite pierces (the Crossbow) or have specific properties like the Artemis and the Spinfusor, weapons you didn’t make, but they were AoE and you were okay with these being in the gamemode being produced by their creators. Spinfusor was also a weapon you set to Tier 6 so that was a precedent set.

    Let’s talk about the Impaler: On the public version of ZS, this weapon has infinite pierces, so it’ll deal 100 damage. In our version of ZS, I nerfed it to introduce tapering per zombie hit. Damage resistance is bugged on it in public ZS, so zombies don’t get resistance to it practically. It has a huge hitbox and it also uses zombie collision hulls, so moving your crosshair isn’t going to be very required. On public ZS, this weapon has insane damage potential and is cheaper than other Tier 5s. So if you’re talking about weapons with AoEs and not moving crosshairs, this weapon fits the bill pretty well. You mention being hit around corners a lot so that just sounds like the radius on said weapons is too high.


Log in to reply
 

6
Online

11.3k
Users

15.5k
Topics

300.1k
Posts

Looks like your connection to NoXiousNet was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.