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Rewarding people for playing the game as it should be



  • @raox
    There are two ways to go about this.

    1. Punish people for intentionally dying in early rounds.
    2. Reward survivors who try as best as they can. Making people feel like they are missing out on rewards.


  • If player contribution or “try level” was calculated and logged it’s also super easy to calculate a moving average and use that. Similar to how stock charts do it, A moving average can also be fun to look at as stats to see how well you did today/this week/this month



  • Yeah maybe accumulative debuffs on the zmains is a good idea. Literally in a game right now where we have zmains…



  • @sally-mcsaggytits Going zmain shouldn’t punish you. Volunteering is a good thing.

    It would be better if volunteering was something you could do by pressing a button. And if there wasn’t enough people it would select the remaining people based on distance from sigils.
    There are too many explosives blowing up props at the moment.



  • @atomic they tend to just run into zombie spawn, there’s already a respawn threshold. It respawns them with no weapons.



  • @atomic Wouldn’t it be easy just to prevent prop explosions from damaging other props unless it was flung by a zombie? If breaking props as a human is a punishable offense then it seems like that would just be a given



  • remember the good old days



  • remember them, for they were bad days.



  • winning because npc zombies were blocking the door haha



  • @atomic said in Rewarding people for playing the game as it should be:

    There are two ways to go about this.

    1. Punish people for intentionally dying in early rounds.
    2. Reward survivors who try as best as they can. Making people feel like they are missing out on rewards.

    There just isn’t a lot of incentive to win hard maps. I truly think if people actually considered it worthwhile to win a hard map as opposed to an easy one they would try more. Punishing people for “skipping maps” or “going zombie” is not solving the deeper problem at hand. Map awards used to do good for “hard maps” at the time but they are now defunct and on top of that inaccurate. In the past I did try increasing the exp reward for certain maps that were deemed hard but ran into problems with the method of doing it. It actually did make the humans try a bit more but only when they were told that there was an increased reward, but I don’t think increasing exp rewards for maps would totally fix it.

    In the past I believe a stamp system was supposed to be added, sorta like a badge collection to show off what maps you won. Could maybe unlock special cosmetic rewards for winning a certain set of difficult maps via stamps? Much like the glasses back when the hard map awards counted towards them. I don’t think hats are substantial since a lot of people disable them and a lot of them are broken.



  • @scott

    Some ideas:

    1. Shift the incentive from trying to win hard maps to trying to getting as far as possible on hard maps. Detecting low win rate maps and adding milestone rewards on those maps.
    2. Dynamically scale round elements such as wave timer, bonus worth or other things based on win rate %. Really bad maps could maybe have T2 pistols in the worth menu like the glock and deagle.
    3. Track wave 4 completions. 3 completions in a row gives you a reward as if it’s a semi win.


  • Permanent rewards are going to work for a couple of weeks. Extending the stat tracking subsystem could be used to implement a leaderboard and related rewards. The stats should be time-bound (e.g. past month, no more; needs to be time-limited but long enough that you don’t need to be an autist to keep a non-top position). Give rewards only for maps on the maplist though you could log the data and publish leaderboards for the others anyway.

    Have a global leaderboard (maplist and default ZS gamemode only so no ZE or OBJ) as well as a per-map leaderboard. Track things per map per player like:

    • Points from damage dealt
    • Points from healing done
    • Points from repair done
    • Points from utility
    • Brains
    • Cade damage
    • Nest spawns
    • Time survived (or times survived if the map is actually winnable)

    You could track these things per round (as in “top points from damage dealt by Bob on zs_home”) or total (as in “total points from damage dealt by Bob on zs_home”), or both separately.

    Rewards could be something like scoreboard bling. If you’re a top 50 medic, you can pin a cool sick-nasty red cross to your scoreboard row. Maybe a badge that’s a gun with a number on it meaning you’re the TOP DPS of the past MONTH (big FUCKING deal) on a whole 9 maps (!). Maybe the top 1 through 5 of each category globally get a differently colored pin (top 1 has a GOLD gun, not like the normal ugly gray gun for plebs). Maybe top 1 for each map gets something of the sort as well.



  • @zetanor I like the idea of pins that can be obtained for milestones to be used on the leaderboard, but will this require the widening of the leaderboard to fit these pins? The leaderboard as it is already feels a bit cramped for space.



  • Replace the remort level column with badges and make remort level one of the badges. It’s not like rlvl is something you ever need to know.



  • This has been a problem since the beginning, however I agree it has been becoming more prevalent recently. We have to be careful about how we tackle it, surely rules such as “No spawn camping on wave 2” are better handled mechanically rather than by administration. As @Scott has mentioned, there is a deeper problem at hand, and I believe that many people’s anger has been misplaced.

    Meditation on Z-Mains

    I think a clear distinction needs to be made between players who give up( from here on referred to as “Losers”) and “Z-Mains” (People who actually play zombie to oppose human team). I blame myself for contributing to this confusion. Generally, Losers kill themselves because they don’t believe a win is possible, or because they believe humans don’t deserve to win. Such players discourage others from trying, and greatly inflate the perceived difficulty of ZS by labeling certain maps, sigils, or even teams as “Unwinnable”. Once this perception is made it is extremely difficult to break, not because the Loser goes zombie (As individual skill barely matters on zombie team), but instead because seeing and hearing a detpack go off in a huge fiery explosion informs everyone on the server that a player is giving up.

    This is not to say that Losers are incapable, actually quite a few players who suicide have a decent knowledge of ZS, but with this knowledge comes arrogance. In the long run, giving up is bad for everyone. Less skilled players are beat into the dirt by angry Losers in a game they don’t even understand, and the Loser puts up yet another barrier to their own enjoyment of ZS, even further fueling their resentment, and stunting their growth as a player. Z-Mains, in contrast, serve to guide zombie team, preventing them from falling into the many death spirals that can kill a zombie team, such as point starving. Z-Mains are an opponent, Losers are losers.

    Too often players underestimate the impact a single player can have on ZS. Even if you aren’t the best cader, or the best shooter, or the best medic, just try. At worst, you become a stronger player by failing while daring greatly. This game will always be challenging, and by avoiding difficult situations you are just dooming yourself to mediocrity and resentment. Strive to overcome difficult situations, maybe then someday they won’t be “Unwinnable” they’ll merely be hard.

    Suggestions

    Any kind of scaling based on winrate will only serve to weaken ZS as a whole. Making things inconsistent by adjusting the difficulty complicates the game and robs humans of any real accomplishment, as it would only because the game became easier.

    I like @Scott’s idea for stamps, which could work well as something that is displayed on profiles when inspected. I was going to suggest something similar to @Zetanor, but he hit the nail straight on the head. Competition has forged some of the finest players in the history of nox, and fueling that competition between players would be extremely healthy for the game. It’ll also be a good way to establish who knows what they’re talking about and who’s just an idiot.

    Another idea for a non-hat cosmetic award is bullet tracers, or melee impact effects. Even if everything is fully transparent, you’ll still see that player’s colored tracers to know they’re nearby. Oh and, the name that appears under players when you look at them could have some kind of title with a different font/color.



  • @prof-dru I agree with you about ZMains. If the human team can’t handle defending themselves from zombies that are good, then humans don’t deserve that win.

    For everything else, I am in full support of a stamp system in ZS. Maybe it could motivate humans to try harder on maps like Vertigo or Nasty House. Let good players have bragging rights for winning difficult maps.



  • @prof-dru
    This is an excellent response, and I fully support it.

    People go Loser because they want to bite the bullet, to “get it over with.” As I like to interpret it.
    Nothing should be done administration wise against a player unless they deliberately do something to make a problem.

    I think a problem in ZS, in my opinion is that Kleiners have an easier time playing zombie than playing human. That’s nobody’s fault. Hitting props and hitting green glowing marshmallows into red paste is easier to understand than making a build, and using skill points.

    Humans have to manage a lot more.

    Leadership is more prevalent in the Zombie team because you’re giving very basic, coherent instructions. “Go to A. Hit the bottom right barrel.” It doesn’t even matter what class they are, it’s simple to understand. It doesn’t matter if they did, they respawn without consequence and do the same thing before they break the cade.

    Kleiners imitate the other Zombies, usually. As humans, they only know “Shoot the head. Make points” but have little understanding of the remantler or perks.

    They’re not dumb, just lacking knowledge.



  • @zetanor said in Rewarding people for playing the game as it should be:

    Replace the remort level column with badges and make remort level one of the badges. It’s not like rlvl is something you ever need to know.

    It’s been kept because it is important in relation to the Barricade Expert. It determines whos nails you can unnail. So there is a crux and I can’t just easily remove it due to regression. There does need to be some way to always see another player’s remort level easily WITHOUT looking for them inside a stack of humans.

    @fragger said in Rewarding people for playing the game as it should be:
    @prof-dru
    This is an excellent response, and I fully support it.

    People go Loser because they want to bite the bullet, to “get it over with.” As I like to interpret it.
    Nothing should be done administration wise against a player unless they deliberately do something to make a problem.

    I think a problem in ZS, in my opinion is that Kleiners have an easier time playing zombie than playing human. That’s nobody’s fault. Hitting props and hitting green glowing marshmallows into red paste is easier to understand than making a build, and using skill points.

    Humans have to manage a lot more.

    Leadership is more prevalent in the Zombie team because you’re giving very basic, coherent instructions. “Go to A. Hit the bottom right barrel.” It doesn’t even matter what class they are, it’s simple to understand. It doesn’t matter if they did, they respawn without consequence and do the same thing before they break the cade.

    Kleiners imitate the other Zombies, usually. As humans, they only know “Shoot the head. Make points” but have little understanding of the remantler or perks.

    They’re not dumb, just lacking knowledge.

    I think you’d constitute that population of “Kleiners” since you use the word unironically. Players who join don’t need to understand the skill system or the remantler from the start. They can buy weapons from worth and arsenal menus like they have been able to for years on any other server and shoot. The only thing which would be unfamiliar is sigils. Shooting the zombies and not running outside the cade is surviving in the basic form. Easy to learn.

    Developing any cosmetic system can work, but I wonder how much it would cut into the current awards system and how it would even mesh and migrate with the current statistics that we record.

    We currently record:

    • Map Wins/Losses (on which wave). This is tracked per map, not per player.
    • Zombie Class Spawns, Damage, Brains Eaten etc
    • Weapon Data, Purchases, Disassembles, Upgrades, Crafts, Damage Done, Time Held
    • And all the stats you see on the NoX stats pages.

    I reset the local data (the top 3) every time there’s a major update to get a new proper reading.

    I haven’t built anything yet since no one seems to be fully agreed on what would be built at all.

    I might introduce map completion tracking to players. Track how many wins they have/or losses on a particular wave. We get a LOT of players though, the data set would be very unwieldy for written files (which it currently is for local data). The data I currently stored has a “fixed” amount of keys so it doesn’t really get so bad, but something player data is more theoretically infinite. Should I use something a bit more appropriate (SQL/Mongo)? I don’t have access to the nox core, so I cannot do anything of the back of that.



  • @raox For testing and development purposes a nodejs server with an API + secret token is enough. Can even host it on your home computer. I could also help out with that.

    You can set data via http.Post and retrieve via http.Get



  • lol people are really overthinking this. People are entitled losers that want victory on a platter and that’s about it.


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