[EFT] Increase jumping speed/cap ball carrier speed


  • Banned

    EFT is all about maintaining momentum and being fast-paced. The new jumping, while an improvement from having to crouch and jump in certain situations, kills momentum and painfully slows gameplay. Not to mention it ruins fluidity on certain maps which are jumping-intensive (e.g. skyline, temple sacrifice, slam dunk).

    Jumping shouldn’t always have to slow down players, especially defensive/non-ball carrier players. It’s a good nerf against bhopping in concept, but everyone suffers. Jumping needs to be faster (or less floaty) to maintain the fast-pace, fluidity, and intensity of the gamemode. If preventing bhopping is the primary concern, then the ball carrier’s running speed ought to just be capped so that doesn’t occur.

    In summary, maintain current jumping height (though maybe make it shorter, too?), just make it less floaty and more fast. Cap ball carrier’s speed to accommodate the aforementioned change and prevent bhopping.


  • Banned

    I suppose this also ties into bhopping not being fully fixed, too. It’s still very much possible with the use of jump pads, so capping ball carrier speed would be a necessity.



  • Jumping does have to slow down players because otherwise there’s no point to not spam it. If you had to choose between the two:
    A. Moving at speed n
    B. Moving at speed n while also being harder to hit and your model jerking up and down.
    Why would anyone choose the latter?

    Same reasoning for crouch jump removal. No one used it to reach places, just to spam it to be slightly harder to hit. The gamemode has no ventilation shafts so there was no reason to have crouch jumping.

    I measured the time in the air compared to old and new. They’re within <1% of each other. So I don’t know how one can describe it as floaty. Floaty would mean the height was increased or the gravity was decreased, which they weren’t.

    Bunny hopping still is possible off of jump pads (for a few hops), it’s just not possible to hop down a slight incline and build stupid amounts of speed.

    Fluidity is the current system. The old system is abusing glitches. Same reasoning for air strafing removal very early in the game. Should I add back 100% air control because that would be the same reasoning.


  • Banned

    @jetboom said in [EFT] Increase jumping speed/cap ball carrier speed:

    Jumping does have to slow down players because otherwise there’s no point to not spam it. If you had to choose between the two:
    A. Moving at speed n
    B. Moving at speed n while also being harder to hit and your model jerking up and down.
    Why would anyone choose the latter?

    I don’t know what you mean by “model jerking up and down.” Are you specifically referencing crouch jumping or just jumping? This matters because normal jumping without crouching was perfectly fine and should still maintain momentum. Crouch jumping, on the other hand, was glitchy and did indeed make it harder to hit. A simple solution for this would be just to remove crouching altogether but maintain the old jumping speed.

    Same reasoning for crouch jump removal. No one used it to reach places, just to spam it to be slightly harder to hit. The gamemode has no ventilation shafts so there was no reason to have crouch jumping.

    Yes and no. On certain maps, it was pivotal for shortcuts/maintaining momentum. There are jumps on temple sacrifice and slam dunk specifically which utilizing crouch jumping and perfect timing was advantageous in gameplay. However, those are few situations and I would agree that that wouldn’t justify keeping crouching.

    I measured the time in the air compared to old and new. They’re within <1% of each other. So I don’t know how one can describe it as floaty. Floaty would mean the height was increased or the gravity was decreased, which they weren’t.

    I’d actually like to see this demonstration, because the current jumping seems a lot more floaty/slow.

    Bunny hopping still is possible off of jump pads (for a few hops), it’s just not possible to hop down a slight incline and build stupid amounts of speed.

    And jump pads are also a common feature in gameplay on several maps (specifically cosmic arena and sky metal beta, still guaranteeing touchdowns), which I don’t see why you wouldn’t just cap ball carrier speed to prevent bhopping for both jump pads and downhill inclines? Because it’s still an issue.

    Fluidity is the current system. The old system is abusing glitches. Same reasoning for air strafing removal very early in the game. Should I add back 100% air control because that would be the same reasoning.

    Fluidity is definitely not the current system. Momentum loss and awkward speed loss for non-ball carriers isn’t fluidity. Gameplay is more underwhelming and less fast-paced now on quite a few maps.



  • @later-gator said in [EFT] Increase jumping speed/cap ball carrier speed:

    I don’t know what you mean by “model jerking up and down.” Are you specifically referencing crouch jumping or just jumping? This matters because normal jumping without crouching was perfectly fine and should still maintain momentum. Crouch jumping, on the other hand, was glitchy and did indeed make it harder to hit. A simple solution for this would be just to remove crouching altogether but maintain the old jumping speed.

    If I did that then your jump height would be lower and half the maps would break.

    Yes and no. On certain maps, it was pivotal for shortcuts/maintaining momentum. There are jumps on temple sacrifice and slam dunk specifically which utilizing crouch jumping and perfect timing was advantageous in gameplay. However, those are few situations and I would agree that that wouldn’t justify keeping crouching.

    Those same situations are achievable if you just don’t press the crouch key. The only viable excuse is not being able to low/quick jump, that is the previous jump height where you don’t press the crouch key. That might explain your floatiness but it’s a lesser of two evils.

    I’d actually like to see this demonstration, because the current jumping seems a lot more floaty/slow.

    I measured landing speed on hitting the ground. Both the same.

    And jump pads are also a common feature in gameplay on several maps (specifically cosmic arena and sky metal beta, still guaranteeing touchdowns), which I don’t see why you wouldn’t just cap ball carrier speed to prevent bhopping for both jump pads and downhill inclines? Because it’s still an issue.

    Because it’s not just the carrier that shouldn’t zip across the map like quake. A game about managing momentum is not the place for this.

    Fluidity is definitely not the current system. Momentum loss and awkward speed loss for non-ball carriers isn’t fluidity. Gameplay is more underwhelming and less fast-paced now on quite a few maps.

    Not needlessly jumping will solve this. A 15% speed loss is regained almost instantly. Don’t believe me? cl_showpos 1.


  • Banned

    @jetboom said in [EFT] Increase jumping speed/cap ball carrier speed:

    @later-gator said in [EFT] Increase jumping speed/cap ball carrier speed:
    If I did that then your jump height would be lower and half the maps would break.

    Touche. Could compensate it by making jumping vertically taller though.

    Because it’s not just the carrier that shouldn’t zip across the map like quake. A game about managing momentum is not the place for this.

    Touche as well. But can’t there also be a speed limit on non-ball carriers too? And what do you mean by “a game about managing momentum is not the place for this”?

    Not needlessly jumping will solve this. A 15% speed loss is regained almost instantly. Don’t believe me? cl_showpos 1.

    Yes, a 15% speed loss is regained instantly if and only if you jump once. There are many jumping maps (such as temple sacrifice and slam dunk) where you need to jump repeatedly. You can’t regain speed quickly when you make immediate consecutive jumps and the ball carrier is at an advantage.



  • @later-gator said in [EFT] Increase jumping speed/cap ball carrier speed:

    Touche. Could compensate it by making jumping vertically taller though.

    Are you kidding me?


  • Banned

    @the-darker-one said in [EFT] Increase jumping speed/cap ball carrier speed:

    @later-gator said in [EFT] Increase jumping speed/cap ball carrier speed:

    Touche. Could compensate it by making jumping vertically taller though.

    Are you kidding me?

    Sorry, yeah, that looks really silly. I said that with jump speed being increased in mind, because it still seems slow/floaty to me and doesn’t feel natural.



  • Are you rambling now? How faster can you get than “instant”?



  • @jetboom said in [EFT] Increase jumping speed/cap ball carrier speed:

    I measured the time in the air compared to old and new. They’re within <1% of each other. So I don’t know how one can describe it as floaty. Floaty would mean the height was increased or the gravity was decreased, which they weren’t.

    I gathered some rough timing data between the old and new jump. With the new jump, it seemed to be about a 30% increase give or take in jump time.



  • Yeah but crouch jumping is the same.



  • That’s true. However, I think the issue for most regular players is that the old non-crouch jump timing is the timing most are used to. They are used to that timing even when using crouch while jumping. When players used crouch with the old jump, they would press and unpress crouch while in midair which seems to follow the non-crouch jump timing if done quick enough.

    I certainly find it is taking some time to adjust to, but that’s with a lot of play time in the old version to bias my thinking. At the moment, I still prefer the old jump. Ultimately, you have to make changes based on not just us regular players but anyone who might join the server. I can understand if you think these changes will attract more new players that stick around.



  • https://noxiousnet.com/update/4b30e0db1275e76669f0af857b3368eb2eb218d5

    Movement speed penalty is now only if you’re moving 5% or more than your normal ground speed at the time that you last left the ground. To elaborate, if you left the ground half way before ramping up to full charging speed, you would get a penalty if you landed with more than 52.5% of your total movement speed. If you left the ground at full charge, you would get a penalty if you landed at 105% speed. This is all basically impossible unless you’re hopping from a jump pad or down a steep hill. The penalty will not affect normal movement, even if you spam jump as quick as possible. Your “normal ground speed” is based on what the gamemode thinks it should be from the ramp up system, carrying an item, etc. not a flat 350.

    Crouch jump is reenabled. Jump height reverted. The reason for adding them in the first place was because hit detection on charging was even worse on people in the air. With the collision changes and ability to charge hit in the air this is likely no longer a worry.


  • Banned

    @jetboom Thank you so much for this. Moving about jump-intensive maps feels more fluid and fast-paced now–definitely what we were looking for.


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