Forums are in read-only mode. Data has been backed up but be sure to save anything you want.

[ZS] Rectifiying Melee

  • I’m under the impression melee is in a bad spot right now. A significant number of changes are making it far less effective and just far too risky compared to using a gun. Here’s a bit of a underlining of where I’m coming from with this:

    • Blood Armor is no longer an effective mitigation measure. Taking 50% of the damage still as health renders accumulation sources such as Hemo Adrenal Convertor way less useful than they should be.
      • Frail and Last Stand is basically completely unviable now, since any attack will still likely one shot you at the threshold despite having blood armor.
      • Poison spray from meleeing next to cade is still going to require you to be healed by a medic, which involves downtime and/or the medic risking themselves near the front of the cade.
    • Zombie statistics are all round higher than they used to be - the punishment from making mistakes with melee is higher and it’s far harder to make a recovery from said mistakes. This generally relates to zombie damage and speed.
    • Encouragement of players to be inside the cade rather than outside at earlier waves limits the way melee weapons can be used.
    • Melee choices are very limited - the highest melee tier in the game is 4 and this only with crafting - the highest purchasable melee weapon is tier 3.
    • Chem Bursters are basically the nail in the coffin for melee users at Wave 6. They may as well scrap their melee weapon and purchase a gun with the points they have.

    So as you can see, I think I’ve identified a multitude of issues which really prohibit the effectiveness of melee as a playstyle. I’m not totally sure what to do with it. Melee does get as a whole, the collective advantage of not requiring ammo, but I doubt this really stands as any kind of enough of a redeeming factor.

    I think it needs some kind of overlook and pretty much rework. The concept of swinging through gaps in the cade being the best way to currently use melee weapons is rather bizarre - wouldn’t you identify the main weapon to used in cades being guns? Obviously what I’m leading to with this is the ability to more practically and consistently use melee weapons outside - even at later waves, which could be a dangerous road of investigation. I definitely wouldn’t want to extend that to guns, since it approaches spawn camping at later waves which isn’t good. If not, at least make using melee weapons more interesting in general and be more practical to consider in the scheme of things.

    Some ways to approach this possibly:

    • A blocking mechanic or mitigation mechanic that isn’t blood armor - allow melee users to make mistakes and reward them for carefully defending.
    • Weapons that need a lot of space to swing but are quite strong - prevents them from being used inside cades but allows the chance for more practical usage outside of them.
    • Somehow make blood armor more viable but only for melee users as it was strong before in general.
    • More higher tier weapons.
    • Give melee weapons varied moves and alternate attacks (like the Frotchet). Would make them a bit less predictable and adaptable to situations.

  • Really easy fix: revert the stupid blood armor change because you don’t need to condemn a whole game mechanic that affects a lot of things just because 1 skill “Blood Armor” was an issue. Change that skill instead.

  • If you want to borrow things that work from other games relating to this, Dying Light’s defensive mechanics COULD be translated into this game… such as the riot shields (could even craft different shields - electric charged shield = z9000 + shield or flame charged shield = explosive barrel + shield) that could have to be repaired via… scrap?

    The abilities in that game to grapple zombies away from you, shove them away like in L4D2 and quickly jaunt to one side to evade could translate to ZS with some new stamina bar mechanic for the survivors… and when there’s stamina bars, there’s a whole new heap of talent tree possibilities.

    Grapple skill showcased in DL:

    The shields OR more melee moves added to survivors could be major features to look at if there was to be a “complete overhaul” of melee.

  • The fix for chem bursters is pretty simple, just add a trinket that negates a set amount of chem burster damage or add a skill that does the same thing but only works with no guns on the player (otherwise it amplifies the damage).

  • All I’ve seen is people banking on the assumption that zombie players are retarded and then getting mad when they get killed.

    Melee lets you damage things without wasting ammo. Guns let you damage things without wasting health. So they’re balanced in that way unless you want to add weapon durability. Why are you even trying to melee with frail? And what mistakes with melee? You already made a mistake by trying to go outside and melee something that melees you harder and infinitely respawns. Yes, you are SUPPOSED to avoid getting damaged, I know this is a shock. Someone getting dog piled by 2+ zombies near their spawn is going to result in death or a large hp loss, as it should be.

    Higher tier melee has longer reach than any zombie melee. Poison spew is completely and 100% countered by one person buying a force shield and a wrench, just like zappers completely hard counter an entire boss zombie and soft counter headcrabs. If half the people who bought crates would switch to zappers and force fields (which now give you points) then the win % would go through the roof.

  • @JetBoom said in [ZS] Rectifiying Melee:

    force fields (which now give you points)

    I became incredibly moist upon reading this. Gunna buy them way more now.

  • I like the alt fire idea, as it adds some depth to melee combat by giving players options other than hold M1, but I feel like these changes will not address the sustainability of melee weapons as a whole. In addition to adding alt fires, perhaps the existing master chef skill could be expanded to add some some depth to melee weapons. As it stands, players with Master Chef have a small chance to gain food when killing zombies with a culinary melee weapon. Master Chef’s usefulness as a source of healing varies wildly depending on the composition of zombie team and the player’s luck in actually procing the skill.

    Master Chef could be made more reliable without being too powerful by giving it its own pool of “cooked” food, possibly depending on the type of zombie the player killed. Unlike normal food, players would be able to carry duplicates of cooked food with some upper limit such as 3 of each type so food isn’t “wasted” when a player successfully cooks multiple of the same zombie type. Zombies that are easier to melee like head crabs would provide less effective food, think like +3 health +2 blood armor, while riskier prey like shadow walkers would provide much more potent meals. If one were to take the system even further, more poisonous zombie types could have a lower chance to drop food that heals, but have a chance to drop some sort of poison resistance or antidote.

    Creating unique food for each class would be a monstrous task, so perhaps it could be divided into tiers for how difficult it is to kill the zombie with melee, like T1 food for skeletons + headcrabs, T2 for normal zombies, etc. More poisonous zombies such as wild poison zombies or elder ghouls could be less likely to provide food when killed, or more likely to produce something inedible. Under this system, players without master chef should be able to use culinary weapons to cook food, but with a much lower success rate and possibly even potency. If the alt-fire idea is implemented, then this could be considered culinary weapons’ ability.

    Unlike other heal on kill mechanics, cooking comes with a trade off: the player needs to actually eat the food, leaving themselves vulnerable. To give this decision more gravity, cooked food should slow the player to a complete halt while eating and maybe even illuminate them with a more visible aura. If this still proves to be too strong, healing can be done over time after consumption. Ultimately, this system would improve melee’s sustainability in a way that rewards careful decision making, as well as creating a unique supportive role.

Log in to reply