[ZS] Bonemesh Rework



  • Since Bonemesh’s nerf to a healing boss there is a new well of untapped potential. The issue is Bonemesh is now widely, if not exclusively, used to heal bosses and prolong the torment. This prolonging of bosses has created a problem where no reward is gained after much human effort. Early waves are the trendsetter for a match and with low early damage output a zombie boss team can become unstoppable.
    To shift the Bonemesh’s abilities to be more supportive and facilitate more team effort I suggest this: Improve the healing capability [increase HP given/AoE splash instead of gibs] and Remove the ability to heal bosses [including the Bonemesh itself].
    This change, I believe, would remove the plague of ‘demi-god’ bosses who are simply semi conscious of their health and facilitate horde cooperation on the zombie team. Healing hordes on later waves could lead to a formidable power when zombies become impotent due to too great an output of damage by humans.

    tl;dr : Proposed Change to Bonemesh
    Change projectile to heal more but restrict healing to non-boss zombies.

    P.S. This is an after thought but perhaps a change from healing to an expiring effect that mitigates damage would be more suitable



  • Since nobody else can be bothered to reply (not sure why people get scared of posting on the forums) I will.

    I disagree on a lot of levels. You’re acting like Bonemesh has never been able to do this before with your post, but the reality this has always been part of the way gibs and Bonemesh healing works. Ever since the area of effect damage was removed it needed some other way to be made useful - hence speeding up the delivery of healing was the way that this was done. Now it actually acts as a strong medical role, I and others almost were concerned of the case that it doesn’t do enough as a boss anymore and that healing is honestly a subpar role. While I appreciate there is a bias towards it being used to heal boss zombies because of the overall health pool they have for staying power, this does not actually detract from utility imparted in terms of healing non boss zombies, because if they’re wailing on a barricade this gives them more staying power to inflict more damage.

    I believe, would remove the plague of ‘demi-god’ bosses who are simply semi conscious of their health

    You must also consider the opportunity cost if you’re considering boss healing case, since now you require 2 boss slots and one is being dedicated to healing instead of barricade damage or being in an assault role which could be vital. Isn’t part of the role of a supportive boss zombie, for the cost of a boss zombie, allow other boss zombies to have less concern over resource management? Isn’t that the point?

    This prolonging of bosses has created a problem where no reward is gained after much human effort.

    What reward? Boss drops? They’re meant to be a consideration based on choosing each boss and shouldn’t expect them to land in your hands. Points? You can still earn points from healed zombies just as normal. You’re acting like boss stacking shouldn’t be a viable strategy at all, and that each boss should die on the wave it spawns in.

    Healing hordes on later waves could lead to a formidable power when zombies become impotent due to too great an output of damage by humans.

    What?



  • @Raox
    I can’t tackle this any other way than through a list :thinking::clipboard:

    • Gib healing is outdated; replace with splash effect
    • Current heal rate is poor; Increase HP healed
    • Issue with bosses cooperating to never dying; although this is a current strategy, should it be allowed? (Bonemesh itself able to survive theoretically indefinitely)

    These points are the ones I believe need addressing.
    Albeit that the current configuration of healing through gibs has been around for some time it shouldn’t be exempt from revision. Changes made to improve a “niche” boss to a viable role should be explored. The current zombie healing strategy is lack luster and benefits the team poorly. Healing bosses seems unreasonable as no other boss directly benefits or deprives another excluding Bonemesh of course. Albeit combinations of bosses can complement each other (i.e. effective against humans & effective against barricades). A better use of Bonemesh’s unique ability would be to complement the team as a support boss. This team oriented healing would make coordinated rushes more effective and playing with the team more rewarding.



  • it’s humans’ fault for not killing the healed bosses due to a lack of dps, isn’t it?



  • @Dark-Noob
    Boss zombie can just run behind a corner and get healed back, or takes minimal damage like a tickle monster.



  • I would be willing to change the way the healing works to some small degree. But I don’t really want to remove boss healing. I COULD slow down boss healing if it’s too strong, but I’m not sure if this is the case.

    I do have some qualms with gibs myself - some of the models which were used for them are just small and hard to see, like the bone fragment ones compared to the chunks of flesh, so for zombies wanting to pick them up they’re likely to miss ones which were randomly set to that model. I could either fiddle with gib models or potentially just change the way the healing system works.



  • Bonemesh healing bosses has been a staple of the boss for a long time, however with the recent changes to his fire rate, I agree with Epple something must change The issues with Bonemesh currently are not game breaking, but they have allowed him to cheese out a lot of winnable games. Bonemesh’s healing fundamentally changes the way that damage penalizes bosses. Health for bosses is virtually infinite with bonemesh, however each point of damage taken incurs a time penalty to heal. Bonemesh can be considered less effective than other bosses but he is by no means defenseless, as his blood bombs can deal effective damage to humans outside of a cade at close to mid-range. Bonemesh’s abilities allow him to prolong the life of himself and other bosses indefinitely and provide some degree of protection from assaulting humans.

    To truly get an idea of why Bonemesh is frustrating to deal with for human team, one must consider how human team deals with other bosses. Usually when dealing with a boss, humans will slowly whittle down its health until it either dies attacking or is weak enough to assault. Bonemesh completely blocks this option since any chip damage to either Bonemesh or other active bosses will be healed, and assault becomes significantly more difficult considering that humans also have to deal with a likely healthy Bonemesh as well. Bonemesh’s utility is only exacerbated by a low server population since the humans’ lower burst damage is less likely to secure the kill before bosses escape.

    In conclusion, Bonemesh allows bosses to be much more reckless at the cost of time and a boss slot. @Epple’s suggestion to shift the healing to hordes is interesting, and can prove to be very potent with bosses such as shade, however memories of the howler make me uneasy about it. It makes Bonemesh too big of a threat without any risk on his part. A much more interesting change would be to leave his boss healing unchanged, but make Bonemesh unable to heal himself or other Bonemeshes. Bonemesh will be forced to be more careful and other bosses will be forced to be less reckless so they are able to protect him.

    The ability to heal a spawn protected target also needs to be removed. If anyone remembers that game on checkpoint where Fructose’s shade would run out, kill people, then retreat to spawn and get healed by POOF who was hidden behind a rock, then you know what I mean.



  • yum epple :apple:



  • That’s the crux, your assumption bonemesh is weaker than other bosses for his utility is wrong. Without considering other zombies or forcefields, bonemesh is a sprinting ticklemonster that can heal itself. Let’s just say the fact that it 1 shots manhacks cancels out the fact its inconvenienced by forcefields.

    For zombies to have a source of healing adds a layer of depth to the game (makes you consider executioner’s axe and burst damage in general like rifles) so I don’t think it should be removed. However holding right mouse for a piddly but reliable 15 damage is very boring yet powerful in the same way a ticklemonster that can’t be shot is.

    I would make blood bombs have a long recharge but with much more dramatic effect than they have now when they deploy. Like, an “oh shit” moment like seeing your grenade bouncing back to you, but its a blood bomb. As I suggested before they could require gibs to form ammo. This also alleviates the frusturtation of shooting bonemesh: if he needs gibs for his balls, he doesn’t heal himself, so there’s some point in shooting him when he pops up.



  • I don’t think bonemesh needs any more major reworks, but I do agree that gibs healing seems a little outdated.



  • @FriskyPiranha37 said in [ZS] Bonemesh Rework:

    I would make blood bombs have a long recharge but with much more dramatic effect than they have now when they deploy. Like, an “oh shit” moment like seeing your grenade bouncing back to you, but its a blood bomb. As I suggested before they could require gibs to form ammo. This also alleviates the frusturtation of shooting bonemesh: if he needs gibs for his balls, he doesn’t heal himself, so there’s some point in shooting him when he pops up.

    Classic bonemesh boss variant with more powerful flesh bomb

    Does not explode on contact, may be better in some situations where rolling is preferred
    Greater delay
    Less suited to healing role
    Increased damage and AOE



  • @ritzbits said in [ZS] Bonemesh Rework:

    Classic bonemesh boss variant with more powerful flesh bomb

    Does not explode on contact, may be better in some situations where rolling is preferred
    Greater delay
    Less suited to healing role
    Increased damage and AOE

    Bringing back AoE damage on small projectiles is really not a good idea.

    I might just do something like making the healing quite direct, like an immediate thing that doesn’t use gibs and just allocates 5 portions of 10 health to zombies in radius (same zombie can get it if injured) and doesn’t leave them as gibs, and then probably make the Bonemesh unable to heal themselves or be only heal themselves to a certain level.



  • https://forum.noxiousnet.com/topic/15097/publish-425
    ’Bonemesh no longer creates gibs. The healing is applied instantly in 10 health packets to zombies in radius. In addition, the Bonemesh itself can only heal to half health.’

    Praise!


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