Is the Helios Gluon Gun OP?



  • Helios Gluon Gun

    Added the Helios Gluon Gun to tier 5 for 200 points. Doesn’t need to be reloaded and fires as long as you hold the button down. Does a lot of damage but at the cost of high ammo use.
    Gluon uses 1/2 as much ammo as before.
    Decreased Gluon damage per hit 20 -> 19
    Increased Gluon cost 200 -> 220
    Decreased Gluon stock count 3 -> 2
    Changed Gluon firing sound.
    Fixed gluon not being able to hit some zombie classes.
    Gluon damage reduced 19 -> 17. As a 0 spread weapon with no reloading it was a bit much.

    This was when the weapon was added to the gamemode, and the changes it has been through.

    The weapon was also discussed here - https://forum.noxiousnet.com/topic/14706/publish-421/70

    This topic is a question directed to the players, post your opinion of this weapon.



  • There’s been many times where the gluon has basically been useful and useless, for example if three sigils are still up and damage resistance is non-existant then the gluon is great however, it finds it’s way to become useless when 2 sigils are down and it does very limited damage, to a point where you cannot restock on ammo from the arsenal due to lack of DPS and points. Really sometimes when you have a constant stream of the gluon’s blue light whilst having 2 sigils down it’s usually from other players who are kind enough to provide you (The gluon user) with ammo for the point of team work.



  • I was in the camp that thought gluon was op, but i’m beginning to change my mind.

    Yes, the dps is very high, but the fact that profiting with it is far slower than with other t5s almost makes up for it alone. For games that are slow-ish a sweeper or adonis will be better in the long run for your team and sweeper will actually outperform gluon if zombies attack sporadically because reloading won’t be an issue. For games that are very intense, impaler will outperform the gluon with the right barricade.

    The gluon’s advantages are exaggerated when we have players get fed pulse ammo from other players. Starting with a pulse pistol and pistol ammo I can usually get a gluon with 150-200 loose pulse ammo but that’s not enough to run outside and shoot a constant stream of zombies. On top of this, a gluon user with plenty of ammo will “absorb” a lot of the points in mid (and sometimes fast) paced games because of the lack of reload, preventing other players from moving up. A good example of this was my most recent rescape plathrough: I got a gluon somewhat early, and a friend was sitting at 230 unspent points. He ended up with a spinfusor, but it took him another 5 minutes or so even with the high amount of zombies because of the obnoxious blue beam and being able to perfectly aim down the hallways.

    With any small nerf to the gluon like increasing inaccuracy over time, an overheat mechanic or even making it so it can’t shoot through the most narrow of holes it would fit in perfectly fine, in my opinion. In many situations I value my ability to buy sigil fragments, turrets and barricade kits more than the superior dps of the gluon but I’m sure people who “have more pulse ammo” would disagree.



  • So I’m reading don’t decrease the ammo eff of the weapon since it is already pretty low at the current point which is fair enough, a lot of other weapons in the Tier do exceed it, it would be unusable if it was any lower.

    inaccuracy over time

    This would be a bit complex to make look nice, unless I did something like make it induce a mild palsy sort of effect. I also think the weapon has too much range for something with 100% accuracy so I’m tempted to reduce the range of it.

    an overheat mechanic

    I have one semi ready to go.

    even making it so it can’t shoot through the most narrow of holes

    I could do this with the new bullet system.



  • Just to add on to this the way I was thinking about doing heat was a sort of combined bar of a short term and long term heat which you’d have the option to vent. Basically if the combined total of heat hit 100% you’d be forced to vent, or you could manually do it to remove any long term heat, hitting R. It would be very easy to visualise. I might be adding complexity to the weapon by doing this but the weapon really in itself isn’t that complex since you’re removing reloads and headshots. The aim of this is to provide an element of choice if you want to retain your burst for later situations and adds a skill element to managing the heat, all in all reducing the overall sustained DPS.


  • Administrators

    Just make it so it has a short windup period to ramp up the damage (and beam size, perhaps). Ammo is consumed at a normal rate during the windup. When I say short, I mean short; just enough to discourage tapping. As a counterbalance, you may consider increasing the winddown time, making it ramp down but also making it cost no ammo.

    If you want to test this change without too much code commitment, it would be roughly equivalent to (but also more intuitive than) increasing the current winddown from the current value (basically nothing) to anywhere between 0.5 to 1.5 seconds.

    @Matt-Marche said in Is the Helios Gluon Gun OP?:

    The gluon’s advantages are exaggerated when we have players get fed pulse ammo from other players.

    The fact that a player who isn’t completely brain dead can benefit from feeding someone else ammo indicates a problem.



  • https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8255941/zs_abandoned_mall_v8 2016-10-2 14-35-06.webm

    Here’s the new mechanic in action pretty much, the numbers for heat decay, heat build up and heat lost upon venting are rough right now. So there’s 2 types of heat you can quite clearly see, a short and long heat, it’s not unlike a health system from Dragon’s Dogma, so I’ve been told.

    If you go into vent mode (either forcefully or from pressing to R manually do it if you have any latent long term heat), you won’t be able to fire, but you’ll quickly remove any long term heat from the gun. If you tap the fire button you’ll build long term heat really fast so it’s discouraged to do this.

    I’m aware this is going to force the Gluon to have a lot of downtime but that’s entire intention of a change like this. Reducing the damage on the Gluon wouldn’t have sufficed as mentioned above and I wouldn’t be opposed to even increasing it very slightly to compensate for these changes, or perhaps returning the price back to 200 points.

    Additionally any concern about over engineering a gun like this is a rather silly point. As I’ve mentioned above, the weapon actually lacks a lot of complexity compared to other weapons. Now you’re effectively running out of ammo in a clip (heat to spare), or hitting reload early like you might do with any other gun.



  • @Raox It would look even better if the tracer and the blue mini-screen also changed color, as it heated.



  • The mini screen is easy to change with heat but changing the tracer is a bit more involved.



  • @Raox said in Is the Helios Gluon Gun OP?:

    The mini screen is easy to change with heat but changing the tracer is a bit more involved.

    Since the ammo counter never varies color, make it so, from white to red is based on the red heat bar, and blink red during the venting mode.



  • @Box said in Is the Helios Gluon Gun OP?:

    @Raox said in Is the Helios Gluon Gun OP?:

    The mini screen is easy to change with heat but changing the tracer is a bit more involved.

    Since the ammo counter never varies color, make it so, from white to red is based on the red heat bar, and blink red during the venting mode.

    Alright then.



  • @Raox said in Is the Helios Gluon Gun OP?:

    Alright then.

    Can you show me an updated video of the changes please.



  • https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8255941/zs_abandoned_mall_v8 2016-10-3 16-18-20.webm

    Also made the nozzle part glow red.

    Among other things the gun now has a reduced range and it also makes use of hull size (so it can’t shoot through small gaps). Even with the heat changes however, you still have the ability provided no damage resistance to kill a nightmare outright without even venting once. This gun is still quite powerful.


  • Game Admins

    It’s difficult to see how you’re implementing it from the video, what does tapping the gun do?

    @Zetanor said in Is the Helios Gluon Gun OP?:

    just enough to discourage tapping

    If you can still do this, and you’re adamant about introducing the cool-down. I’d suggest reducing the rate of heating and introducing an initial “boost” in heat for every click.



  • @Benjy said in Is the Helios Gluon Gun OP?:

    It’s difficult to see how you’re implementing it from the video, what does tapping the gun do?

    @Zetanor said in Is the Helios Gluon Gun OP?:

    just enough to discourage tapping

    If you can still do this, and you’re adamant about introducing the cool-down. I’d suggest reducing the rate of heating and introducing an initial “boost” in heat for every click.

    I actually have implemented one, I’ll probably make it more prominent and reduce the long term heat increase a bit.



  • @Raox said in Is the Helios Gluon Gun OP?:

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8255941/zs_abandoned_mall_v8 2016-10-3 16-18-20.webm

    Should make the HEAT wording change when it’s venting rather than inserting it inside the heat bar.



  • Na I don’t think so, always need to it show what it is pertaining to.


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