[ZS] Tier 3 Pistol and Tier 5 SMG



  • Since there’s no such examples of such weapons being in Tier 3 or Tier 5, and some other tiers are fairly loaded with these categories of weapons, I think would be interesting idea to move one of the pistols from Tier 2 into Tier 3 (Since there are 4) and move one of the Tier 3 SMGs to Tier 5. After all the general idea has shifted to having a weapon of every type in each tier, so I think it would make sense to take this further, and not having to recreate a new weapon - just rebalancing existing ones into new tiers would save a significant amount of work.

    It would be nice to reward people who want to invest a higher tier gun and have got ammo which doesn’t have to be only used on lower tier guns in general. Having 1-2 weapons a tier of the same type is fine but when it gets to 3+, I think this should change.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bRBqFatqVpHiaWVaaL9bgej6wN3Q1GY5Tdvxc-kTqMI/edit#gid=1480294018 - Reference Values

    Tier 2 -> Tier 3 Pistol Candidates

    • Glock - It’s very commonly bought at this tier, more so than the Desert Eagle is right now. It’s on paper less accurate than the Desert Eagle for more damage, but the multishot effect gives it considerable accuracy anyway. It has a slightly faster reload and fire rate too.

    • Desert Eagle - Technically this gun is very similar to the Glock with a smaller paper cone of fire for slightly reduced overall damage. It was left like this to be a tradeoff between Glock, but I don’t think it’s working and people just buy the Glock more. Maybe move this OR the Glock?

    • Magnum - The Long Arm already exists at Tier 4 and bringing this closer wouldn’t really make sense. It already fills the high ammo eff niche at this Tier just fine. It should stay.

    • Eraser - It’s in a really weird spot. It has insane burst DPS for a pistol of it’s tier, but it devours ammo like no tomorrow. For that reason it’s almost never bought unless you acquire a lot of ammo. Could be moved.

    Tier 3 -> Tier 5 SMG Candidates

    • Shredder - The most bought SMG in Tier 3 right now. Respectable accuracy, good damage, good reload time, can profit if you don’t lose too many sigils. I would strongly prefer the Reaper to be moved since this gun is a defining SMG staple.

    • Silencer - Also rarely bought now, the Silencer has a really low reload speed (almost as slow as the Magnum). The only thing it has going for it is good burst DPS but it’s small clip size limits that from generally being properly applied. It’s also massively inaccurate compared to the Shredder alongside doing less damage, so it’ll never be as a remotely as efficient. I think should just be rebalanced though.

    • Reaper - I think this is the one that should be moved in my opinion. It’s lost it’s previous status of being the most bought SMG since it lost damage, I think it’s generally deemed unworthwhile for the DPS loss as you gain a tiny amount of damage and tiny amount of accuracy. If it isn’t rebalanced in this Tier it should be the candidate to move.

    I know it’s a significant shake up, but weapons are an important topic and improving the distribution of the types within tiers would go a long way I think.



  • Since there’s no such examples of such weapons being in Tier 3 or Tier 5, and some other tiers are fairly loaded with these categories of weapons, I think would be interesting idea to move one of the pistols from Tier 2 into Tier 3 (Since there are 4) and move one of the Tier 3 SMGs to Tier 5. After all the general idea has shifted to having a weapon of every type in each tier, so I think it would make sense to take this further, and not having to recreate a new weapon - just rebalancing existing ones into new tiers would save a significant amount of work.

    It would be nice to reward people who want to invest a higher tier gun and have got ammo which doesn’t have to be only used on lower tier guns in general. Having 1-2 weapons a tier of the same type is fine but when it gets to 3+, I think this should change.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bRBqFatqVpHiaWVaaL9bgej6wN3Q1GY5Tdvxc-kTqMI/edit#gid=1480294018 - Reference Values

    Tier 2 -> Tier 3 Pistol Candidates

    • Glock - It’s very commonly bought at this tier, more so than the Desert Eagle is right now. It’s on paper less accurate than the Desert Eagle for more damage, but the multishot effect gives it considerable accuracy anyway. It has a slightly faster reload and fire rate too.

    • Desert Eagle - Technically this gun is very similar to the Glock with a smaller paper cone of fire for slightly reduced overall damage. It was left like this to be a tradeoff between Glock, but I don’t think it’s working and people just buy the Glock more. Maybe move this OR the Glock?

    • Magnum - The Long Arm already exists at Tier 4 and bringing this closer wouldn’t really make sense. It already fills the high ammo eff niche at this Tier just fine. It should stay.

    • Eraser - It’s in a really weird spot. It has insane burst DPS for a pistol of it’s tier, but it devours ammo like no tomorrow. For that reason it’s almost never bought unless you acquire a lot of ammo. Could be moved.

    Tier 3 -> Tier 5 SMG Candidates

    • Shredder - The most bought SMG in Tier 3 right now. Respectable accuracy, good damage, good reload time, can profit if you don’t lose too many sigils. I would strongly prefer the Reaper to be moved since this gun is a defining SMG staple.

    • Silencer - Also rarely bought now, the Silencer has a really low reload speed (almost as slow as the Magnum). The only thing it has going for it is good burst DPS but it’s small clip size limits that from generally being properly applied. It’s also massively inaccurate compared to the Shredder alongside doing less damage, so it’ll never be as a remotely as efficient. I think should just be rebalanced though.

    • Reaper - I think this is the one that should be moved in my opinion. It’s lost it’s previous status of being the most bought SMG since it lost damage, I think it’s generally deemed unworthwhile for the DPS loss as you gain a tiny amount of damage and tiny amount of accuracy. If it isn’t rebalanced in this Tier it should be the candidate to move.

    I know it’s a significant shake up, but weapons are an important topic and improving the distribution of the types within tiers would go a long way I think.



  • Adding weapon effects fixes “this gun is mathematically superior to that gun” syndrome. Example: there are numerical differences between silencer and shredder, but they’re too subtle to require consideration.

    Say, if silencer was given the knife’s effect (double damage if their client is 180 degrees turned from you) then the choice now has distinction: you get the silencer if you’re running around, and the shredder if you’re behind a cade.

    If Reaper is going to go all the way to T5, let’s give it ammo regen on kill, as befits the name. It’s sad when humans have no chance of a frantic wave 6 cade collapse survival cause they run out of ammo.



  • Just fucking Borderlands the guns.


  • Game Admins

    moving deagle from t2 to t3 and giving it a buff would be great, i love the deagle

    nobody ever takes any of the T1 pistols, and the only T2 pistol people ever use is the glock, so I think these are good ideas



  • bump

    @Skully said in Publish 421:

    A while before deagle actually got buffed someone mentioned buffing the deagle and bringing it to t3, i think that could still be a possibility. Bringing it to around ricochet damage and making the point cost similar to that of a t3 would both solve the deagle being too powerful early and bring a pistol weapon to t3.

    I also feel like the eraser should be brought down to 30 points if that change went through, as it would give humans more early-game weapon choices.


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