[Global] Encouraging map makers: add small dynamic silver bonus



  • After playing a map, players would see two buttons in the top middle of /votemap, to rate a map up or down. The results change a rating, which can be visible or invisible (I recommend invisible to prevent circlejerking). Every time someone earns silver inside a map, the creator of that map gets a small silver bonus, determined by the rating of the map. This bonus never goes above 20%.

    Some examples:

    eft_badmap is rated down a lot, so badly that if displayed in a bar, the bar would be nearly completely red. This mapper then gets… let’s say 5% of all the silver earned while playing that map. Using EFT as an example, the mapper would get (150 per goal * 13 possible goals without changing the map * 0.05 for 5% = 52.5 + .5 to round up =) an average of 53 silver for their bad map. Since kills don’t earn you much silver, let’s say a bad mapper would get around 70 silver every time their map was played.

    eft_goodmap is rated up quite a bit for being fun to play and keeping gameplay fresh. This mapper, by contrast, would get 20% of the silver earned while playing. Using EFT as an example again, our good mapper would get (150 per goal * 13 possible goals without changing the map * 0.20 for 20% =) a minimum of 210 silver. Kills aren’t that much, however the bonus this time is much larger, so a good mapper would get somewhere around 320-360 silver every time their map was played.

    Assuming a map is played once every hour and following our examples, our mappers would get in the ballpark of 1272-5040 silver every day. This isn’t far off from costume creators’ current silver bonus.



  • After playing a map, players would see two buttons in the top middle of /votemap, to rate a map up or down. The results change a rating, which can be visible or invisible (I recommend invisible to prevent circlejerking). Every time someone earns silver inside a map, the creator of that map gets a small silver bonus, determined by the rating of the map. This bonus never goes above 20%.

    Some examples:

    eft_badmap is rated down a lot, so badly that if displayed in a bar, the bar would be nearly completely red. This mapper then gets… let’s say 5% of all the silver earned while playing that map. Using EFT as an example, the mapper would get (150 per goal * 13 possible goals without changing the map * 0.05 for 5% = 52.5 + .5 to round up =) an average of 53 silver for their bad map. Since kills don’t earn you much silver, let’s say a bad mapper would get around 70 silver every time their map was played.

    eft_goodmap is rated up quite a bit for being fun to play and keeping gameplay fresh. This mapper, by contrast, would get 20% of the silver earned while playing. Using EFT as an example again, our good mapper would get (150 per goal * 13 possible goals without changing the map * 0.20 for 20% =) a minimum of 210 silver. Kills aren’t that much, however the bonus this time is much larger, so a good mapper would get somewhere around 320-360 silver every time their map was played.

    Assuming a map is played once every hour and following our examples, our mappers would get in the ballpark of 1272-5040 silver every day. This isn’t far off from costume creators’ current silver bonus.



  • Too much work.



  • Map ratings are good because they allow you to identify bad/buggy maps for easy removal

    Map ratings are bad because, from previous experience, users will just vote for maps with the highest ratings, meaning variety is often harmed and when new maps are added, they get overshadowed because they have no ratings.



  • @Niandra:

    Map ratings are good because they allow you to identify bad/buggy maps for easy removal

    Map ratings are bad because, from previous experience, users will just vote for maps with the highest ratings, meaning variety is often harmed and when new maps are added, they get overshadowed because they have no ratings.

    Nox ZS had map ratings before though
    although they were used ironically xd



  • Noir has been rated “Colorful”



  • Players are going to have different opinions on what makes a map good or bad and they won’t necessarily reflect on whether a map is good or bad for ZS.



  • Has nobody here actually read the thread?

    The ratings are just going to be a simple “did you like the map yes/no” sort of thing. Like reddit up/downvotes. The map creator would be rewarded based on how many people click yes as opposed to “no”.

    It’s really that stupidly simple. It shouldn’t be a publicly visible value.



  • Unfortunately any sort of map rating system will tend to get abused such that the rating is never actually what people truly think of the map itself. In your example people would just constantly vote No on Pufulet’s maps since they don’t like how he makes maps. I’m pretty sure that the circlejerkers you’re talking about would just collaborate with each other even if the yes/no vote was invisible, making sure that each map was rated terribly so the fewest amount of silver was rewarded to the map maker. There could always be a system which could limit such bandwagoning and do various other things related to it, but at that point you have to ask yourself: Is it really worth it?



  • From my limited programming knowledge this seems simple.
    From my Mapping experience, this would promote me to map.
    From my Player experience, this would let me put out my voice, also I would play more.

    From a programming perspective:
    Step 1: track income earned on the map, accumulate it, in EFT I have calculates Points * 5 gives around the amount people have earned in silver, if not exact. Lets say our map earns 12,000 total.
    Step 2: Use base percent: Good map goes to 20%, lowest is 1% income. Bad maps get 1%, Good maps get 20%.
    Step 3: Contact SQL Server, give SteamID that in conjoined with the map: [Mapper’s Money] = [Mapper’s Money] + [BasePercent]*[MoneyEarned].

    Upvote/downvote system is different, I can’t say anything on that, but the stuff above should take about 2 hours at most to code, maybe it doesn’t

    If I were a mapper that wasn’t mapping for NN, but I played on NN servers allot, I would be more inclined to make maps.

    More maps = More Players
    More Players = More Maps
    More Players & More Maps = More inclination to map = More Maps
    All of the three above = more donators
    more donators = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



  • In addition to what CodeBrain said, a player’s opinion on a map would vary depending on whether the player was human or zombie for that round. If humans win, it is likely that many zombies would vote no.



  • Modesty would come on and wonder why he has 100,000,000 silver.



  • Then you’ve got to link the maps with the author etc. This just gives surplus silver to who can create the most mediocre maps.



  • @Benjy:

    Then you’ve got to link the maps with the author etc. This just gives surplus silver to who can create the most mediocre maps.

    Linking maps with author:
    [“eft_brokenbonesbridge”,“STEAM_0:1:23456789”,
    “eft_soccer”,“STEAM_9:8:76543210”,
    etc…

    As for mediocre maps… we don’t already have many mediocre maps? Especially in ZS?

    Edit to reply further:
    [quote author=CodeBrain link=topic=19380.msg320681#msg320681 date=1403392254]Unfortunately any sort of map rating system will tend to get abused such that the rating is never actually what people truly think of the map itself.
    This bonus isn’t meant to be significant. Yes, the system will get abused. Does it matter? Just tack on a minimum percentage like 5% and when people get bored of abusing a system they can’t see then things will be more or less normal.
    @CodeBrain:

    In your example people would just constantly vote No on Pufulet’s maps since they don’t like how he makes maps.

    Then it’s nobody’s fault if this system goes live and what you describe here happens. As map makers only get a small amount of silver under this system and would get much more playing the game, I’m fairly sure Pufulet wouldn’t care much.
    @CodeBrain:

    I’m pretty sure that the circlejerkers you’re talking about would just collaborate with each other even if the yes/no vote was invisible, making sure that each map was rated terribly so the fewest amount of silver was rewarded to the map maker.

    Again, if these numbers were invisible to everyone except the map maker, nobody would really care. Yes, there will be circlejerkers, and yes, they will try to abuse a system to punish certain people more. However, that’s being elitist toward said certain people. We have a no-elitist rule for a reason.
    @CodeBrain:

    There could always be a system which could limit such bandwagoning and do various other things related to it, but at that point you have to ask yourself: Is it really worth it?

    Not much would have to be done to limit bandwagoning. I’m open to ideas for alternate ways to reward map makers. Maybe there’s only a button to push when you like the map and the result decays over time?

    @ritzbits:

    In addition to what CodeBrain said, opinions on a map would vary depending on if the player was human or zombie for that round. If humans win, it is likely that many zombies would vote no.

    Humans win maybe once on a map every 10-30 times they play it. If what you describe happens and all the zombies vote no, then no matter: it’s a blip that will get smoothed out as more human losses follow. Even if we assume extreme negativity and everyone who loses votes no, a minimum silver percentage would prevent things from going too far off the deep end. This isn’t a system meant to alert people that maps are bad.



  • @commandhat:

    Linking maps with author:
    [“eft_brokenbonesbridge”,“STEAM_0:1:23456789”,
    “eft_soccer”,“STEAM_9:8:76543210”,
    etc…

    As for mediocre maps… we don’t already have many mediocre maps? Especially in ZS?

    Edit to reply further:This bonus isn’t meant to be significant. Yes, the system will get abused. Does it matter? Just tack on a minimum percentage like 5% and when people get bored of abusing a system they can’t see then things will be more or less normal. Then it’s nobody’s fault if this system goes live and what you describe here happens. As map makers only get a small amount of silver under this system and would get much more playing the game, I’m fairly sure Pufulet wouldn’t care much.Again, if these numbers were invisible to everyone except the map maker, nobody would really care. Yes, there will be circlejerkers, and yes, they will try to abuse a system to punish certain people more. However, that’s being elitist toward said certain people. We have a no-elitist rule for a reason.Not much would have to be done to limit bandwagoning. I’m open to ideas for alternate ways to reward map makers. Maybe there’s only a button to push when you like the map and the result decays over time?
    Humans win maybe once on a map every 10-30 times they play it. If what you describe happens and all the zombies vote no, then no matter: it’s a blip that will get smoothed out as more human losses follow. Even if we assume extreme negativity and everyone who loses votes no, a minimum silver percentage would prevent things from going too far off the deep end. This isn’t a system meant to alert people that maps are bad.
    [/quote]

    Do note that I’m not trying to say that your idea is a bad one. I would like map makers to get rewarded for outputting maps to the server, but many of us remember how people picked bad ratings for maps on purpose back when the votemap list had them. Perhaps your idea would work if instead of solely the map maker seeing the results, administrators could see the results as well. Administrators could also see something the map maker could not: who voted yes or no. That way if the same people are constantly voting the same option (No) over and over, they could be punished (if it’s actually necessary to due so) with a short democracy ban or something.



  • Maybe a set rate set by JetBoom (Not all admins because I know of a few that would downright butcher an EFT map for existing.). Besides, a bad map might not be played twice, so that would lower the amount earned by that person per day. Also shitty maps could be set to have a 1% income rate :P

    I mean the amount earned on a map is low anyways, in my example, EFT earns around 12K in a good sized game, 1% would be 120 silver. So that amount would be low.


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